Dark Knight (Story Discussion) WARNING: SPOILERS!

[Lamron]

WARNING: This thread contains spoilers about the movie The Dark Knight! Stop now if you haven't seen it yet!


























Here we can discuss the story line of the new direction the Batman story is going, as depicted in Batman Begins and Dark Knight.

[Lamron]

The Joker is a completely different character now. A normal villain can be somewhat predictable because you know what he wants ($$$ + Revenge). This Joker is truly scary, because he is not limited by any instinct for self-preservation or any particular goal or prize he is seeking. He is closer to a true anarchist than I think we have seen in a movie before.

I thought it was very interesting when he realized that the people on the two ferries didn't blow each other up. There was a brief, but real moment of actual doubt in his philosophy that everyone will choose self-interest when put to the test. But the truly insane cannot abide self-doubt for more than a few seconds.

He is terrifying when you realize that it is extremely hard to stop someone who had NO limitations on what he might do.

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What I didn't like was Batman's treatment of the copy-cat "batmen". He beat them up, unmasked them, and tied them up with the criminals for the cops to find. Then when asked by one of them what makes him different than them, he gave a flippant, smart-ass answer.

Maybe these guys weren't as strong, or as smart, or as well equipped as he was, but they were out there doing what they could with what they had. The condescending implication of a moral difference between him and them was not far off from the elitist attitude many corrupt leaders display. It would have been no different if they had captured him and unmasked him and left him for the cops to arrest. But apparently Bruce Wayne has reserved for himself the right to decide when its acceptable to break the law in pursuit of the "common good".

I can understand his annoyance at their use of his Batman symbol, but I think that was a totally inappropriate response to guys who were simply inspired to do what they could to fight crime in their city.

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Another thing I didn't like about the story was pinning Harvey Dent's murders on Batman. I can understand that keeping Harvey Dent's downfall secret was important for the city to maintain his "White Knight" image. Bruce Wayne believed in him as a symbol of positive change so much that he chose to save him instead of the woman he loved. But why pin those murders on Batman? We have a perfectly believable scapegoat in the Joker. Nobody ever would have questioned their deaths being added to the long list of Joker victims. They were minor characters and they where all shot to death. Its not even remotely plausible that Batman would have killed those people when he didn't even kill the Joker, and everybody knows Batman never uses a gun. This new twist also severely hinders Batman in the future because he won't have any cooperation from the police.

They appear to be making Batman more of a loner, with nobody at all on his side. We'll have to see where they go with this as the story continues, but blaming him for these murders seems like a very weak plot device to make him an outcast.

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There's a couple of things that make the Batman mythology interesting versus other superheros. Most importantly, he has no super powers. You can not reasonably aspire to become Superman or Wolverine or Spider-man when you grow up, because you're not from another planet, weren't born a mutant, and radioactive spiders are in short supply. But Batman we can identify with. He is just a man who is (obsessively) motivated and has the resources to act on it. Without quick healing, invulnerability, etc. he really does run the risk of severe injury or death every time he goes out. We can imagine someone like him actually living in OUR world, and not just the fantasy of comic books and movies.

The other thing that is interesting is that the villains often have formative experiences that are very similar to what Bruce Wayne has experienced in his life. The basis of much of the story is showing that what has happened to you does not make you who you are, but your choices and how you react and deal with it does. Bruce Wayne could have just as easily become a super-villain (and still gotten to wear the same outfit!).

[RedRock]

Great start, Lamron! Well-written, and enjoyable read.

I want to address the parallels in the movie with our very important War on Terror, and how the movie was slanted to the left. I'll do so as soon as I can--I'm unfortunately busy at work now and not off again until Tuesday 7/28--but I've got it ruminating in the background. Anyone else can chime in before me, if you want. I'll also be considering your comments, Lamron, to see if there is anything I can add to them.