Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
Posts: 5,219
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Post by Lamron on Apr 27, 2005 2:08:59 GMT -5
I'm thinking that MGs get too much usage on the server, and I'm looking to add a handicap to balance things out a little better. I want to keep the same realistic rate of fire, and lowering the damage would just make them SMGs. Right now I'm considering changing their runspeed, making them 3rnd burst only, or limiting what other weapons they can carry with them. I'm open to other suggestions also.
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RedRock
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Post by RedRock on Apr 27, 2005 17:01:17 GMT -5
My father was a Marine in WWII and Korea and always told me that they seemed to give the BAR to the shortest, smallest new recruits as a way of giving them a compensating "tough" identity, due to the BAR's great weight but awesome firepower. I don't know about the German MG or other MG's available on the MOH games, but the BAR was heavy: ".... and its weight (BAR, with bipod and a loaded bandoleer, came to about 40 pounds). In Korea, the much greater range and penetrating power of the BAR and ..." www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/browning.htm - Cached The run/walk speed with the BAR is already much slower than with other weapons, but the speed difference goes away when the BAR user switches to grenades or pistols or "holsters" the BAR. So, the most realistic, reasonable thing to me is to make the MG users have slow(er) walk/run speeds as long as they have an MG in their possession, whether out to use or not. Lamron, you only asked for a poll, not for discussion, but I thought it might be interesting and useful for those with strong viewpoints on the options listed to give their reasoning, so I did. Likewise, I'm sure you're open to other possible "handicaps" if someone has a good idea.
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Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
Posts: 5,219
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Post by Lamron on Apr 27, 2005 20:43:45 GMT -5
Runspeed can't be controlled based on "possesion" only by "holding". Here is how it works: a base value runspeed is set on the server. This is what you experience when holstered and standing. All other speeds are set as a multiplier to this number. Inside the individual weapon files the multiplier is set that applies when you are holding the weapon and a "zoom movement speed" is also set as applicable.
Most of the weapons have a multiplier of 1, so they run at the same speed as they would when holstered. But currently the BAR / STG44 = .8 to slow them down, and the M1 Carbine / Silenced Pistol = 1.1 to give them a little speed advantage (very lightweight weapons).
If anyone has another suggestion or wants to give reasons for their poll answer, please do so.
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Post by WidowMaker on Apr 27, 2005 20:53:54 GMT -5
I believe removing other weapons will force people to play more strategic. I plan my strategy as a map is loading up. I usually,as much as I hate to , resort to a machine gun just to keep up. I love my rifle. I do enjoy it when I get a bash in on a machine gunner hehe ;D The weight issue could present a situation where the player would have to take a much needed break after running around for too long..Can't move cause they are out of breath...Hey,it could happen
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Brammer
New Member
Shoot....then run like hell.
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Post by Brammer on Apr 27, 2005 21:27:13 GMT -5
Im not sure which option I would go for...probably fewer nades,etc.I have noticed way more Mg's even on maps that most would consider sniper maps.Those sniper only maps usta be a lot of fun,but its probably due to the amount of newer folks playing on the server.
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Post by Sir_Shootsalot on Apr 27, 2005 21:33:08 GMT -5
For me if the run speed is slower I will run with my grenades and when I have to shoot i will get out the smg for some fragging.That is one of the reasons why I use the nades so much becuase i can run faster with them.Cant wait to be back in thre game with you guys.it wont be long Sir Shootsalot
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RedRock
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Post by RedRock on Apr 27, 2005 23:28:12 GMT -5
I have noticed way more Mg's even on maps that most would consider sniper maps.Those sniper only maps usta be a lot of fun. Boy, do I ever agree with Brammer, but it's not just the MG's, its the SMG's, too (or perhaps, especially). These are people who are basically running around shooting everything without any subtlety or finesse to the game--no strategery, if you will--and they get a lot of kills but also get a lot of deaths, at a great cost of the pure fun of the game, IMHO. What frosts me is that I'll just be about to take a shot at one of these with my rifle, when one of their semi-aimed, nearly-stray bullets wings me, not enough even to really bleed me, but the program makes me "jerk" and "grunt" and prevents me from taking aim or firing, and while my imaginary body is doing this, the smg/mg gets more unhindered opportunity to aim and fire and continues to pour lead my way, and the viscious cycle repeats itself with minor hits/jerks/grunts/no return fire possible/etc. until I do die, having never even got a shot off. On my good days, I will frequently get my shot off before they do their cycle thing to me, but on most days, I have to quickly try to run off while switching to a nade to leave them something to remember me by, or I just hope they run out of ammo long enough for me to "come back on target" to take one shot and hope to get them and their health pack. In real life, I know that most people (and animals) who are shot don't even know it at first, and there certainly is NOT any push or shove or knock-back from being hit (people do NOT get blown back through plate glass windows from shotguns, for example), and unless you mistakenly expect to go down when shot, or unless you are hit in the brain or spinal cord, you will not go down until you lose a large amount of blood, and in the meantime you can continue to aim and shoot back, etc. So in this way, the game engine disappoints me (some programmer has chosen to make me react this way when shot). Our new opponents and their smg/mg tactics accentuate, or perhaps exploit, this game weakness in favor of large kill numbers, so Brammer is entirely correct. I'm beginning to think that I would more often like the Private setting, just to get back to some of those challenging stealth-duels with Brammer or Lamron, or to find out the new sneaky places LostChild will put a bomb next, or to see if Marauder remembers how to lob a mortar round!
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Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
Posts: 5,219
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Post by Lamron on Apr 30, 2005 2:27:01 GMT -5
I'm trying some new experimental settings. These are very subject to change.
More recoil on BAR/STG44. Makes distant shots very hard. You can still switch to 3rnd burst for low recoil. Also, when picking one of the MGs, you get no grenades and can't call airstrikes (no binoculars). We'll try this for a little while and tweak from there. Still open to more handicap ideas.
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Brammer
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Shoot....then run like hell.
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Post by Brammer on Apr 30, 2005 20:25:13 GMT -5
Im not sure that the MG"s are the problem.From what I am observing,it seems the majority are using the SMG "s I think that those with the Thompson are at an advantage already without any changes.Just my 2 cents worth. ;D
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Brammer
New Member
Shoot....then run like hell.
Posts: 91
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Post by Brammer on Apr 30, 2005 22:19:37 GMT -5
Just tried the tweaked STG and cant hit anything with it! Rather than linit the machine guns with a slower movement rate-why not just slow down rate of fire just a bit on the smg?It seems that the SMG users have the best of both worlds-high ROF,fast movement,grenades, air strikes,where as MG users are very severly limited.
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Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
Posts: 5,219
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Post by Lamron on May 1, 2005 3:44:56 GMT -5
Ok, scraped the very high recoil / no extra stuff idea.
New experiment, all SMG/MG damage settings have been lowered slightly, and they get only one grenade. Everybody else gets three.
Shotgun now has 2 incendiary rounds instead of 4.
I changed some of the animation states so that if you are holding a rifle, you can switch to another weapon MUCH faster. Switching quickly to handguns or knives should help against SMG/MG.
I would kind of like to keep the ROF settings as they are for realism's sake.
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Brammer
New Member
Shoot....then run like hell.
Posts: 91
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Post by Brammer on May 1, 2005 13:47:36 GMT -5
Thanks Lamron,new adjustments seeem very fair.I think this may be the mix that works for everyone. ;D
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Post by slimey weasel on May 1, 2005 22:01:15 GMT -5
i'm just going along 4 the ride! i'll try to keep up with you guys!
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RedRock
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Post by RedRock on May 2, 2005 11:00:54 GMT -5
Man, I just keep misplacing my weapons. I know my pistol was here a minute ago. Here, hold my carbine for a sec, and let me check my back pocket. Nope, not there. And, RATS, I seem to have lost 2 of my incendiary rounds for my shotty, too. Dude, I am gonna miss those, fer shizzle. But seriously, maybe just some significant accuracy changes for Full Auto and decreased run speed are all that's needed for the smg/mg's to even things up. I really like the 3burst with any of the smg's/mg's, even with slightly heavier recoil. Was the Russian 71-rnd smg ever known for overheating and temporarily not functioning? It is said that the first MG John Browning ever showed to the military, ca. 1900 (all this is off my aging memory, guys), was shot continuously for over an hour without a single misfeed or misfire. And is the zoom the same magnification for the carbine and the smg's? The change from sniper rifle to pistol was very very fast! Wow, if I could bash with my pistol at that hand speed, well, lets just say the maps might be a little messy! However, changing to grenades and back to rifle didn't seem any different, though. Lamron, thank you for a site that improves and takes suggestions.
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Post by Lost_Child on May 2, 2005 20:12:57 GMT -5
OK my two cents worth ! I keep seeing the word REALISM . What does that mean ?? Different weapons have different abilities . If you want them all the same , just get rid of everything but one weapon .It sounds like those who prefer snipers and rifles are trying to penalize the people that prefer using SMGs and MGs . They are NOT equal weapons and should not be made so !
I will offer a suggestion as well . Instead of penalties why not have a few days a week that the server is rifle (any rifle) only ?? If thats possible. That way the Rifle people and the Mg ,SMG people can both be happy !
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