GUNS ON CAMPUS

[Lamron]

No morale, sane, respectable person believes that people are safer when they are helpless.

[vinsanity]

And no moral, sane, respectable, or intelligent person would think that the ONLY way to defend yourself is with a gun. There are many many other options INCLUDING removing yourself from the situation.

[Lamron]

Why should I remove myself from somewhere I have the right to be?

[Urumii-Previously ThePresident]

You don't have to, you do have the right to be there. But it would be the smart thing to do. Even if you did have a gun, if you are able to get away, that should be the first thing to do. You have the right to go to Iraq, but would you?

It is human instinct, most living species instinct to run away from danger. Even a bear or lion, who could easily kill us in one swipe would rather run first than kill us.

If you were the one with the gun, you would still tell your family to run. Even if you and your wife had one, I would think you would tell her to run. And had you choose to start shooting, afterwards you would still run away to your family. You wouldn't keep them in danger because they had the right to be there.

Not to say I know exactly what actions you would take, this is a general statement. But as you were the one who brought it up, I put the you's in there.

[vinsanity]

Apr 26, 2008 11:50:51 GMT -5 Lamron said:

Why should I remove myself from somewhere I have the right to be?

So... are you saying that having the right to be somewhere and having the intelligence to know when it is best to get out of said somewhere are not mutually exclusive. Do you get out of the rain or stand there defiantly claiming your right to get wet?

It seems to me that having the right to be somewhere means nothing once that somewhere erupts in gunfire. I would rather exercise my right to common sense thinking and get to safety, firing as a last result. To choose otherwise makes an excellent point FOR gun control.

[RedRock]

It has always been understood that we are talking about conditions where leaving a situation is no longer an option, but that instead immediate direct counteroffensive action to save the life of oneself or others is necessary. That will not happen if the endangered are unarmed, and a personal firearm is the best tool for that.

Lamron is obviously talking about the situation in general before the desperate condition arises--why should anyone have to remove himself from a college campus in the place he wants/needs/has the right to be, in order to avoid the possibility of being raped, mugged, tortured, maimed, or killed, or have to witness or fear that, especially when that could be prevented if he were armed, and armed the same legal and constitutional way he is when he takes one step beyond that college campus boundary?

It is simply foolish to depend on (armed or not) security or police officers to protect us. They just won't be there, or won't be there fast enough, and furthermore, the US Supreme Court has already found that the police have no duty to provide protection to individual citizens. It is up to us to do it for ourselves.

Finally, whether the conscious or subconscious desire of anti-gunners is to see gun-owners hurt by disarming them, I believe the effect is the same, and thus to me they bear the same guilt for their misguided beliefs as if they wanted the disarmed to be raped, beaten, tortured, maimed, or murdered.

You know what scares me more than guns in the hands of citizens?
Personal tasers.
They come with the idea of non-lethality but are effectively incapacitating, and thus, how long will it be before bad guys start using tasers to knock people out to rob, rape, or kidnap them--after all, it won't kill them, it works fast, quick, and effectively, they can be carried concealed, and can be bought with less red tape and background checks (if any) than guns. There are already Tupperware-style female Taser Parties happening in Florida, to sell them to housewives.

[vinsanity]

I am suprised that you would be "anti" any weapon, Red... What about all of those poor defenseless women that feel the need to protect themselves but are uncomfortable with a firearm, shouldn't they be able to protect themselves without having to remove themselves from somewhere they have the right to be? As to the bad guys, I think they are perfectly happy wuth their illegally obtained firearms... they likely won't desire the taser.

[Death's Shadow]

It is human instinct, most living species instinct to run away from danger. Even a bear or lion, who could easily kill us in one swipe would rather run first than kill us.

I respectfully disagree with this statement Prez. Most any animal has the fight or flight reflex. If you cornered said bear or lion they would tear you to shreds. If either of them was hungry enough they would tear you to shreds. Mother bears will not run away, they will run at you if they even think you have looked at her cubs in the wrong way.

If you are a smart human you would not place yourself in THEIR environment with out taking a gun to protect yourself.

There are no "NO KILL I" zones in the jungle, or the streets.

[RedRock]

Apr 27, 2008 11:35:58 GMT -5 @vinsanity said:

I am suprised that you would be "anti" any weapon, Red... What about all of those poor defenseless women that feel the need to protect themselves but are uncomfortable with a firearm, shouldn't they be able to protect themselves without having to remove themselves from somewhere they have the right to be? As to the bad guys, I think they are perfectly happy wuth their illegally obtained firearms... they likely won't desire the taser.

Just had an attack here with Taser. Perps knocked on door, said the car was on fire, when homeowner opened door to look out, perps tasered homeowner to ground where he was temporarily helpless and then kicked and beat him and left.

[vinsanity]

That attack could have just as easily been committed with a bat, golf club, random brick or rock, fists, or even a hand gun. People will do all kinds of ugly things to each other. But again, your well documented rants against weapons restrictions makes me wonder why you choose to want restrictions on of all things, a taser...