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Post by YOUR_DADDY on Apr 18, 2008 18:10:05 GMT -5
I'm setting in my living room watching the nightly news on students carrying guns on campus. Quiet frankly this scares me to death. I feel that if students are allowed to carry guns on campus the threat of violence will increase. You have a bunch of the "good ole boys" and "red necks" that will have the John Wayne syndrome and will take the law into there own hands.
Hell I'm a campus safety officer and I can not even have a gun locked in my vehicle in the parking lot. I do not agree with this push that a certain group of students want, if anything let the safety officers carry guns and maybe they will feel safer at school
I was just wondering how you guys and girls (killer monkey) feel about this issue.
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Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
Posts: 5,225
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Post by Lamron on Apr 18, 2008 19:41:12 GMT -5
Preventing people from carrying guns is murder. Try to remember that those "sudents" are adults like you. There's no reason why you should be exempted from rules that make them helpless. What's scary is that there are some states that have decided that a certain class of citizen (adults who wish to continue their education), is worthless and their lives aren't worth protecting. Remember the administrators at VT celebrating the fact that nobody was able to stop him? Did you know that NO mass shooting has EVER been stopped by police or "safety officers"?
You're not going to get a lot of sympathy for liberal ideas like that here. Most of us have and/or carry guns every day.
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Post by YOUR_DADDY on Apr 18, 2008 20:26:30 GMT -5
Lam, I did not mean to imply that any person does not have the right to have and to carry a weapon. I have a permit to carry as well as my wife and two childern. I only wanted to express my consern about the few that will carry a weapon just to make themselves feel like a bad ass. If a person has the proper training and is responsable that is fine with me. I do understand that if a person wishes to commit a crime that he or she will do so and will not be stopped by anyone who gets in the way.
Once again I just wanted to get other peoples point of view on this issue.
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Post by vinsanity on Apr 19, 2008 9:35:50 GMT -5
My thinking on this is that students on college campuses should NOT be allowed to carry firearms ON campus. They should not be allowed to keep them in dormitories either. Lam, these students may be LEGAL adults, but I assure you they do not act like adults. You and I acted like adults at that age, but we are the exception rather than the norm.
As a former college student, I can attest to the fact that, in general, college students are no more mature than high school students. Given the massive amount of drinking involved on campuses and the issues surrounding the lack of supervision of students (many of them being unsupervised for the first time in their lives), mixing in weapons would IMHO make matters worse.
That said, any student who has a legal carry permit who lives OFF campus should be able to carry, but not on campus. Most all schools have a zero tolerance weapons policy. This is a good idea. I do not want a drunk, pissed off, or drugged up student making a poor choice with a weapon over a traffic incident or other minor incident due to clouded judgment.
On the issue of campus officers being armed... this is a MUST DO. When I attended the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, all campus officers were state LEOs that were fully armed. They have the same authority as any Tennessee State Trooper. To have any presence of authority an officer must be armed. In today's world the Andy Griffith style of policing will get you killed. An unarmed campus officer is at high risk in my thinking.
Also, having armed students would definitely add confusion to the situation when campus shootings occur. How would campus (or local) LE know which student(s) are the problem if additional students try to take out the ones that are the problem? I can see this vigilante style of protection being problematic. It is not the job of any student to take on attackers on campus. To defend ones self in the home is not the same as taking on shooters in public. There of course would be accidental shootings if students acted in school shootings as well. All in all it is a bad idea. The students who can should run from the area when shooting starts.
Danny, I do not know how you can feel safe being a campus officer unarmed. I wish you the best.
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Killer_Monkey
New Member
Even a creepy little undead Monkey can kill!!
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Post by Killer_Monkey on Apr 19, 2008 12:50:49 GMT -5
yeah I agree with vinny. you should be armed on campus, but students shouldn't have weapons on campus. at my school we have (I think it is called this) "rent-a-cop". those officers have tazers(?) and a gun just in case things get out of control. you should be armed and ready cuz college gets worse with students being able to drink, and drive (but hopefully not together).
Good Luck on campus YD and you should get armed soon. BE SAFE!! (and don't be a hero)
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Death's Shadow
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Post by Death's Shadow on Apr 19, 2008 17:22:48 GMT -5
unarmed in public is the same as being a sheep to the slaughter, Running away from an armed psycho just makes you a moving target. We would not be in this mess if more people went armed. Knowing that your victims are unarmed just encourages these attacks.
A while back look at the lady that took out a shooter at a church, saving many lives.
self protection is your right, you should not expect or count on others to protect you.
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Post by Urumii-Previously ThePresident on Apr 19, 2008 21:43:58 GMT -5
at my school we have (I think it is called this) "rent-a-cop". I don't know what grade your in now, but when Officer Chow was at the high school, his title was Liaison Officer. He could not be armed on school grounds, he could only carry a taser. But off school grounds he could take his gun from his trunk, and patrol Roseville as any other Roseville Officer could. I got pulled over by him once actually LOL. He let me go, cuz we were on good terms. When I was at the middle school 5 years ago, they had a fully armed Sheriff (Little Canada doesn't have their own Police). They may have changed it by now, but that was the case back then. I never saw the need to have a fully armed Officer in either school. There has never been a gun problem in the Roseville area, and when there has been a problem the taser took care of the problem with much less injuries than a gun would have. But in North and South Minneapolis (Inner Cities) the schools definitely need to be armed. The school that I went to for 6 months had 6 shootings just the previous year, and there was only an Officer armed with a taser to "deter would-be shooters". That was the exact words for the reason behind having the taser. I think each school should evaluate the area they are in, and the history of violence in their school to determine if they should have an Officer armed with a taser or with a Gun. It should not be as black and white as many people try to make it. |
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Post by vinsanity on Apr 19, 2008 23:23:16 GMT -5
unarmed in public is the same as being a sheep to the slaughter, Running away from an armed psycho just makes you a moving target. We would not be in this mess if more people went armed. Knowing that your victims are unarmed just encourages these attacks. Your comment would be 100% accurate if all Americans were responsible, sane adults. Unfortunately they are not. If a shooting were to break out in a school, nearly all that run away will make it. Most assuredly though, those who whip out their pistols and start shooting will kill more innocent that attackers. And if I were LE on the scene, how would I know who was "good" and who was "bad"? |
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RedRock
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Post by RedRock on Apr 20, 2008 2:43:29 GMT -5
Vinnie, what I don't like about your argument is the ASSUMPTION that those students who wish to carry a concealed weapon WILL get drunk, get in fights, lose their temper, show bad judgment, etc. That's just so insulting, and it's calling someone guilty not just before a trial, but before anything is even committed! It's the same argument that gun-banners use for EVERYONE who wishes to have/carry a gun, that it will be used recklessly, carelessly, and unlawfully. I use my handgun (by possessing it and carrying it) every single day since I bought it in 1986, and never once has it been used in any of those fashions, but the liberal anti-gunners would strip it from me because of what MIGHT happen. The same is true for students. If they can qualify for a concealed carry permit, then they should be allowed to possess and carry anywhere any other person can. Drinking, drugs, sex, anger--all those things are just gonna have to be handled in an adult fashion by all involved, and if not, they will suffer the consequences. My kids will not be in an environment that fosters, tacitly allows, or tolerates such behaviors, by the way, nor will I. That's the other half of the equation.
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Post by beer on Apr 20, 2008 8:16:27 GMT -5
I use my handgun (by possessing it and carrying it) every single day since I bought it in 1986, and never once has it been used in any of those fashions, but the liberal anti-gunners would strip it from me because of what MIGHT happen. What if Bill Gates bought that fruit company and introduced Vista for the Mac.....  |
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Post by vinsanity on Apr 20, 2008 12:26:02 GMT -5
Vinnie, what I don't like about your argument is the ASSUMPTION that those students who wish to carry a concealed weapon WILL get drunk, get in fights, lose their temper, show bad judgment, etc. That's just so insulting, and it's calling someone guilty not just before a trial, but before anything is even committed! It's the same argument that gun-banners use for EVERYONE who wishes to have/carry a gun, that it will be used recklessly, carelessly, and unlawfully. I use my handgun (by possessing it and carrying it) every single day since I bought it in 1986, and never once has it been used in any of those fashions, but the liberal anti-gunners would strip it from me because of what MIGHT happen. The same is true for students. If they can qualify for a concealed carry permit, then they should be allowed to possess and carry anywhere any other person can. Drinking, drugs, sex, anger--all those things are just gonna have to be handled in an adult fashion by all involved, and if not, they will suffer the consequences. My kids will not be in an environment that fosters, tacitly allows, or tolerates such behaviors, by the way, nor will I. That's the other half of the equation. In a perfect world I would agree with you. I am certainly PRO guns. I own a few and have a carry permit. I always carry my weapon with me. BUT in places where it is posted that weapons are not permitted, or against the law to carry them (like school grounds) I secure it in my vehicle. My assumption as you call it is not insulting. You and I were both college students and saw first hand the behaviors that exist on campus. While we did not act that way, the majority do. The bottom line is that students do not need weapons on campus for two reasons... 1. lack of maturity and 2. it is against the law/policy on nearly every campus in the nation. Now I know you would not want students to violate the law in order to carry a weapon, right? |
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RedRock
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Post by RedRock on Apr 20, 2008 13:18:27 GMT -5
....The bottom line is that students do not need weapons on campus for two reasons... 1. lack of maturity and 2. it is against the law/policy on nearly every campus in the nation. Now I know you would not want students to violate the law in order to carry a weapon, right? Sorry, your logic is flawed. Even an immature person has both the need, and the right, to defend himself. Who was it, hmmmmm?  ? who? , not so long ago telling me these very same people had the right to vote, to make and bind major decisions upon the rest of America (and me and my family!), just because they are 18, DESPITE this very immaturity that you herald as the reason you don't want them to have guns? And since when did upright, freedom-loving Americans let THE LAW (as defined by activist judges and liberal lawmakers) define what is RIGHT? Abortion on demand is the best example--totally legal, but always immoral and wrong. Always. If adult Americans are being denied their constitutional right to keep and bear arms by certain laws and certain administrators, it is time to remove those laws and administrators. The current favorable lawsuits and judgments against the unconstitutional gun laws in D.C. and Philly are telling in that regard! And Florida citizens now have statutory protection against employers telling them they can't even have a lawfully owned and carried weapon in their cars traveling to and from work and parking on employer property! Finally, saying that "oh, well, you know how college students are, nothing we can do about it," is disgusting. We can and should EXPECT AND DEMAND BETTER from them, and if they don't, reward them accordingly, swiftly and in public, and educate them and their peers to a better life, and they will be and will do better. It's just like the arguments on teaching contraceptives instead of abstinence, the former approach assumes the kids will fail to control themselves and nothing can be done to change their behaviors and beliefs. Garbage. It's weak-minded liberal governmental educational policies such as that that have helped bring America down these last 50 years. |
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Killer_Monkey
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Post by Killer_Monkey on Apr 20, 2008 13:56:10 GMT -5
*ggaawwdd.....men and their arguing* LOL
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Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
Posts: 5,225
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Post by Lamron on Apr 20, 2008 15:49:10 GMT -5
Indiana is one of the states where you can carry a gun on college campuses. There are several others.
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Major_A
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Post by Major_A on Apr 20, 2008 23:38:21 GMT -5
I hate to gloat about how blessed our state is on where we can take our guns plus the very few others, also do not want to step on Lamrons stage when he is there but, he left out the part where we can take them anywhere we want as long it is not a Federal building of any type (courthouses and such) or an airport...BUT that is good up untill the boarding starts. So if the bad guys get them in those places we can't legally go, your screwed if they (badguys) get them there.
On a further note, don't fear the John Wayne syndrom stuff and stuff people!!!! Fear the people that say, "Yeah , comon' dooshbag, I got somethin for ya' " and egg it on. The most feared person in a bar is going to be the quiet one! And in a situation where one person can save the life of many, the quiet one is the one, who will be the least noticed when he takes action.
Keep in mind, I'm not trying to cause an argument just interjecting an opinion from someone who has had their (carry) permit and still do from 18 and first pistol at 18½
People that do not act like an adult with a responsibility like they should with a firearm, turn them in to someone, BUT be sure it's something you know for a fact!!!!....NOT what you heard from so and so, if you didn't see it, don't judge because you could be hurting an innocent from hearsay.
Any time a situation occurs and you are a carry person, the first rule is to walk away if possible if your the person involved! IF YOU ARE IN THE VICINITY of something happening, and life or death situation is in question, it is an obligation to do what is right. ie/ don't hate, don't instigate, .....protect, IF the situation calls for it, only the person there can make that split second decision,. Question, is this considered a vigilantly action?......
Remember this, if your kids say whatever after you tell them NO, are you going to ignore it, or let it go, or set them strait and say this is how it is!? This is what the government does, only millions of dollars are involved! Give them an inch, and they WILL take 100 years from what should be the way it is!
I will end with this....Does anyone know why the crime rate in Texas is as low as it is? Also...and a BIG also....take away the guns, and my wife will still grab the closest swords on one of the walls!
Mailbox baseball and driveby beheadings are popping into my mind for some reason.
Yes, I have been asked to "specifically empty my person of dangerous objects"....ya know what I threw on the table?.....my ink pen...that scarred the crap out of him!....and that was years ago, I was 20 and under age drinking at a party!....The point is, take away one thing, You'll die by another....everything is dangerous, it's how you choose to use it! and no, I've never stabbed anyone with anything, it's just what I was taught.
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? who?
