Immigration, and my house

[desmo2]

Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.

Let's say I'm an immigrant and I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house)."

According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house. You are Required to add me to your family's health insurance plan. You are Required to educate my kids who speak little or no English and may be far behind academically than yours. You are Required to provide may other social benefits to me & to my family (my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part again).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there. It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest person (except for, well, you know, I did break into your house.)

And what a deal it is for me!!! I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior. Afterall, this is a nation of immigrants (although they were healthy, had skills, and entered legally when this place was nothing but wilderness. I like it better now that you have made it so nice).

Oh yeah, and I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE so you can communicate with me. All stores, services, examinations, etc. will be in my language. I ask that you observe all my holidays and customs in the spirit of celebrating diversity--mine!

--Why can't people see how ridiculous this is? Only in America! If you agree, pass it on (in English). If not blow it off . . .along with your future Social Security funds, your American culture, your financial security, etc. etc. etc.

[Sgt_Blueberry]

AMEN BROTHER..................Why should I press 1 for english.....I agree that this whole mess is bullshit and should be discussed so that WE understand what is at stake here....

Moth## Fu%$ing For&^%ners

[Death's Shadow]

I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants..

I could not agree more with ya des.. People just don't think correctly anymore. When will they wake up and realize that there is a bloodless invasion of our country happening.

I can answer that.. The will finally realize it when its too late and they are cashing their social security check for 10 pesos, that is written in Spanish.



And to tie in with your example des. If I came home and found they had broke into my house there would be no insisting they leave. Leave they would, in a body bag after I shot them. Iowa has sucky hand gun laws but it is still legal to shoot trespassers in your own home here. This in my opinion is a viable solution at the boarder. Shoot them as they cross and watch the numbers of illegals drop off. Their buddies would see them go down and spread the word.

"Hey amigo, no go up there those loco Americans will shoot you if you try to get across." or something to that effect.

let the Rev. Jackson scream his fool head off about human rights if he wants too. And his civil rights liberal buddies along with him.
They can go jump off a bridge for all I care.


Thanks again for the write up Des. Keep it coming Brother.

[Lamron]

The only thing that will fix it is a complete closure of our borders. We need a no exceptions, shoot-on-sight rule. Once we have everything sealed up, then we can go about deporting everyone here. Of course it will take a few years to find everyone, but eventually it will be done. The twelve million number you hear all the time comes from the IRS. That's the number of workers with KNOWN fake social security numbers. That's twelve million that we know exactly where they are and where they work. Don't let anyone tell you we can't deport them all.

[Death's Shadow]

could not agree more Lam.

[vinsanity]

I must concur. While I too am a supporter of legal immigration, any illegal immigration must be stopped. The costs to our nation are already astronomic. I cannot begin to fathom the long term costs. The only way I can see that this will happen is to close our borders, period. But in order to do that we must ensure that the folks we are paying to secure the borders can. In my personal experience, they cannot as they are completely apathetic to the situation.

I feel this way based on my personal experience with the border guards. My wife and I went to Arizona last July. While there we decided to personally look at the border along Mexico. At Nogales (AZ & MX) once can freely walk through a MX entry checkpoint. My wife and I literally strolled through the turnstile into Mexico. There was not a soul at the checkpoint to see who was coming in. I was not surprised as who in their right mind would flee to or illegally enter into Mexico?

On the return walk across the border I expected far greater measures to monitor who entered the USA. Let me tell you how shocked and disgusted I was at the process....
First of all, the line of Mexican nationals was at least 100 people. My wife and I were the only Americans in the line that we could see. As we moved closer to the US entry point we noticed a counter where all people had to stop and give information to US border guards & customs. You will all be shocked at the process of passing through the checkpoint INTO the USA from Nogales, Mexico. I listened carefully to each discussion between the Mexicans and the border agents. They were all asked the same three questions:
1) What is your name? (nothing was written down by the agents)
2) What is your purpose for entering the USA today? (ALL said the same "shopping.")
3) When will you be returning to Mexico? (ALL said "later today.")
Then they were allowed to enter our nation. NO written record of who was entering was taken!!!
HOWEVER... when my wife and I got to the counter it was drastically different. We were asked (my responses):
1) What is your name? (Vincent & Lora Stormes)
2) I need to see your ID. (when I gave him my TN Driver's license, he asked...)
3) What were you doing in Mexico? (tourist - never been this close to MX & wanted to see it.)
4) What reason did you have to be in this part of the USA. (Why do you ask?)
5) I asked you a question. Why are you in the Southwest? (Well... as an American we have the freedom to move state to state unencumbered. So we decided to give that a try. Further, we are in Phoenix for a week as I am graduating from the University of Phoenix - BS in Criminal Justice Administration. While in the area we decided to walk into Mexico and spend the afternoon there. Will there be anything else irrelevant that you need to inquire about today?)
6) That is quite enough. Do you have anything to declare? (I am SO glad you asked. I declare that it is offensive to me, an American, to be raked over the coals entering my OWN nation while at least 100 Mexican nationals just passed through you and this sorry excuse for a checkpoint without producing any ID nor giving any real answer to your simple two questions regarding the reason for and length of time that they will be in my nation. I also declare that this is likely the primary reason why we have such an illegal immigration problem. Finally, I declare that you need to work a little harder on minimizing this cancer to America to justify your $48K annual starting salary (plus benefits.) May I enter my homeland now or we a security risk to the USA? If it will make you feel any better, we are going shopping but will return to Mexico by dark tonight.)
HE TOTALLY IGNORED THOSE COMMENTS AND AGAIN ASKED
7) Do you have anything to declare? (Nope, we bought nothing but lunch.)
8) Did you purchase prescription medication while in Nogales today? (What part of "we bought nothing but lunch" did you not understand?)
9) He returned my ID and allowed us to proceed back into the USA.
WHAT A JOKE... There is really no reason for anyone wanting to immigrate illegally to not just travel to Nogales and walk through the border claiming to be shopping for the afternoon.

To make things worse, we decided to drive from Nogales to Tombstone, AZ. About 20 miles form the US/MX border on a lonely two lane highway, we roll up on a camping trailer on the side of the road with 4 male border agents sitting in lawn chairs under the rolled out awning, each drinking a can of Coca-Cola. In the middle of the road was a beach umbrella on the center yellow line with a female border agent sitting in a lawn chair. She flagged us to stop. I rolled down the window (we were in a Cadillac De Ville sedan). She asked "do you have any illegal persons in your vehicle?" I looked around and replied "nope." She looked in the back seat and said, have a nice day (motioning us to move along.) I asked, don't you want to check the trunk? I ask only because IF I had illegals in the vehicle, it is far more likely that they would be in the trunk as opposed to sitting in plain view in the back seat." She smiled and replied, "that is OK, I trust you." I simply stepped on the gas as my wife was utterly disgusted with me at this point. I cannot explain how sad and angry I am that our resources are being pissed away when it comes to our borders. Hell, there were four agents ($250K plus benefits + the cost of the trailer & supplies) 20 miles from the border doing NOTHING! We MUST either do the job right or stop trying at all... there is no reason to do it as we currently are as it is painfully ineffective.

OH... I too agree with DS. Anyone breaking into my home, illegal alien or not, won't have to be asked to leave as the coroner will handle that for me.

[Lamron]

Of course the Border Agents are doing nothing. Would ANYONE make an effort if they were them? The last two agents that tried to do their job are spending 12 years in jail for it.

[vinsanity]

Lack of effort in doing your job is stealing from your employer. And being one of millions of the employers of the US Govt. employees I think it is deplorable.

[Lamron]

vinsanity said:

Lack of effort in doing your job is stealing from your employer.

Yes, but I wasn't talking about lazy people not doing their jobs, but people who are afraid to fear of being sent to jail.
I was refering to this story:

Two U.S. Border Patrol agents were sentenced to prison terms of 11 years and 12 years for shooting a drug-smuggling suspect in the buttocks as he fled across the U.S.-Mexico border.

U.S. District Court Judge Kathleen Cardone in El Paso, Texas, sentenced Jose Alonso Compean to 12 years in prison and Ignacio Ramos to 11 years and one day despite a plea by their attorney for a new trial after three jurors said they were coerced into voting guilty in the case, the Washington Times reported.

As WorldNetDaily reported, a federal jury convicted Compean, 28, and Ramos, 37, in March after a two-week trial on charges of causing serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence and a civil rights violation.

Ramos is an eight-year veteran of the U.S. Naval Reserve and a former nominee for Border Patrol Agent of the Year.

On Feb. 17, 2005, he responded to a request for back up from Compean, who noticed a suspicious van near the levee road along the Rio Grande River near the Texas town of Fabens, about 40 miles east of El Paso.

Ramos, who headed toward Fabens hoping to cut off the van, soon joined a third agent already in pursuit.

Behind the wheel of the van was an illegal alien, Osbaldo Aldrete-Davila of Mexico. Unknown to the growing number of Border Patrol agents converging on Fabens, Aldrete-Davila's van was carrying 800 pounds of marijuana.

Unable to outrun Ramos and the third agent, Aldrete-Davila stopped the van on the levee, jumped out and started running toward the river. When he reached the other side of the levee, he was met by Compean who had anticipated the smuggler's attempt to get back to Mexico.

"We both yelled out for him to stop, but he wouldn't stop, and he just kept running," Ramos told California's Inland Valley Daily Bulletin. Aldrete-Davila crossed a canal.

"At some point during the time where I'm crossing the canal, I hear shots being fired," Ramos said. "Later, I see Compean on the ground, but I keep running after the smuggler."

At that point, Ramos said, Aldrete-Davila turned toward him, pointing what looked like a gun.

"I shot," Ramos said. "But I didn't think he was hit, because he kept running into the brush and then disappeared into it. Later, we all watched as he jumped into a van waiting for him. He seemed fine. It didn't look like he had been hit at all."

The commotion and multiple calls for back up had brought seven other agents – including two supervisors – to the crossing by this time. Compean picked up his shell casings, but Ramos did not. He also did not follow agency procedure and report that he had fired his weapon.

"The supervisors knew that shots were fired," Ramos told the paper. "Since nobody was injured or hurt, we didn't file the report. That's the only thing I would've done different."

Had he done that one thing differently, it's unlikely it would have mattered to prosecutors.

More than two weeks after the incident, Christopher Sanchez, an investigator with the Department of Homeland Security's Office of Inspector General, received a call from a Border Patrol agent in Wilcox, Ariz. The agent's mother-in-law had received a call from Aldrete-Davila's mother in Mexico telling her that her son had been wounded in the buttocks in the shooting.

Sanchez followed up with a call of his own to the smuggler in Mexico.

In a move that still confuses Ramos and Compean, the U.S. government filed charges against them after giving full immunity to Aldrete-Davila and paying for his medical treatment at an El Paso hospital.

At trial, Assistant U.S. Attorney Debra Kanof told the court that the agents had violated an unarmed Aldrete-Davila's civil rights.

"The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled it is a violation of someone's Fourth Amendment rights to shoot them in the back while fleeing if you don't know who they are and/or if you don't know they have a weapon," said Kanof.

Kanof dismissed Ramos' testimony that he had seen something shiny in the smuggler's hand, saying that the agent couldn't be sure it was a gun he had seen.

Further, Kanof argued, it was a violation of Border Patrol policy for agents to pursue fleeing suspects.

"Agents are not allowed to pursue. In order to exceed the speed limit, you have to get supervisor approval, and they did not," she told the Daily Bulletin.

Those shell casings Compean picked up were described to the jury as destroying the crime scene and their failure to file an incident report – punishable by a five-day suspension, according to Border Patrol regulations – an attempted cover up.

The Texas jury came back with a guilty verdict. Conviction for discharging a firearm in relation to a crime of violence has an automatic 10-year sentence. The other counts have varying punishments.

"How are we supposed to follow the Border Patrol strategy of apprehending terrorists or drug smugglers if we are not supposed to pursue fleeing people?" said Ramos, who noted that he only did on that day what he had done for the previous 10 years. "Everybody who's breaking the law flees from us. What are we supposed to do? Do they want us to catch them or not?"

He also noted that none of the other agents who had responded to the incident filed reports that shots were fired and, besides, both supervisors at the scene knew they had discharged their weapons.

"You need to tell a supervisor because you can't assume that a supervisor knows about it," Kanof countered. "You have to report any discharge of a firearm."

"This is the greatest miscarriage of justice I have ever seen," said Andy Ramirez of the nonprofit group Friends of the Border Patrol. "This drug smuggler has fully contributed to the destruction of two brave agents and their families and has sent a very loud message to the other Border Patrol agents: If you confront a smuggler, this is what will happen to you."

The El Paso Sheriff's Department increased its patrols around the Ramos home when the family received threats from people they believed were associated with Aldrete-Davila.

www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52545

[vinsanity]

Ah, I see... it seems that the punishment was overboard in this case based on the report. But frankly had the agents followed all in-place policies things may have gone much better for them. I am curious to know if the supervisors were charged with anything. Despite this, the policy to not chase a fleeing suspects seems ignorant to me unless the suspect has crossed a border and is outside of the US. I do not agree that shooting an unarmed man running into Mexico in the back is appropriate policy either. Especially when it is not clearly known who the man is and exactly what is taking place. It is a job that requires control and discipline, not just a "shoot now & ask question later" perspective. One solution, as we have been discussing, is if the borders were closed, it would be far more appropriate to act as these agents did.

[Death's Shadow]

I firmly believe there should be such an outcry of outrage over what our justice system did to those 2 agents. They should be set free and paid handsomely for their loss of time, liberty, back pay, and legal costs.

I can understand why our current patrol agents do noting.

[vinsanity]

I would have to read all relevant reports before making any decision on that, but it does seem that they were made an example of by the court.

[Death's Shadow]

Here is a link to a story I found on foxnew.com. Possible pardon in the works for the 2 boarder agents.


tinyurl.com/23lhyz


I could not find the story on line on fox news, but saw this morning on TV that a police officer was shot and killed by an illegal in Phoenix.

[Pvt._Michaels]

Now the Feds just don't want to "look the other way" on letting any
scumbag in here that breathes...Oh, no...
Now the Feds want to allow any Mexican shit box tractor trailer free and open access
to our roads....This makes any discourse in DC about "terrorist threats" idiotic.

Seal the border, first. The whole topic will be
the primary campaign issue for me. The cultural, economic, and criminal justice
systems are at a breaking point now... Lam is right... Deportation IS do-able
and should be commenced NOW. Start by making ANY wire, money order, or
cash transfer to Mexico from US soil subject to 4 forms of ID plus passport & can only
be performed in a Post Office.....NO MORE Western Union or Currency Exchange transfers.
That should take care of about 6-8 Million. The rest are either in jails, golf courses, and landscape trucks.....
Cash from the US to Mexico is Mexico's largest source of income..and this is no BS!
Now don't get the Pvt. going on this...it pisses him off!!!

[Death's Shadow]

I'm right there with you brother Pvt.