RedRock
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Post by RedRock on Jun 22, 2007 13:03:55 GMT -5
Even in Mediviel times armies would sometimes catapult plague-infected corpses over castle wars in a siege. Not good for civilians. In fact, that had shock value only--no truly infective value.
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Post by I...Died...Again!!! on Jun 22, 2007 13:14:10 GMT -5
I still say if they had thrown some sheet heads( PC term for Rag-heads) out of the plane headed for Gitmo. we would have Osama Bin-Runnen already.
Oh and before anyone cries about the SHEET HEAD comment I am third generation Syrian. My great grandfather was an immigrant who got here legally ;D
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Death's Shadow
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 22, 2007 14:57:10 GMT -5
....My mom and dad have both said they remember hearing about this on MPR and NPR (Minnesota, and National Public Radio) awhile ago. Before I go read that story, I can tell you that your first mistake is listening to "XPR" (anything Public Radio) as it's all leftist propaganda masquerading as intellectual news. Period. I totally agree with that statment Red.
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Death's Shadow
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I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 22, 2007 15:09:51 GMT -5
I called them rag heads in game the other night and I thought Jazzer was going to have a stroke right there. what else are you supposed to call them. they wear rags on their heads and cover their faces with them to hide their identity like the cowards they are. They are the ones I call raghead not the every day citizen that wears the turban on TOP of their head and is not packing a bomb. If its not pc to say, so much the better because I loathe all that sissy PC crap.
Im all in favor of doing what ever it takes to extract the info needed from the prisoners in Club Gitmo. Again the ROE's dont apply. They have no problem torturing and beheading our captured soldiers and civilians.
All the crap about granting them due process is nothing but a Liberal play to attempt to strum he heart strings and make the president look like the one in the wrong. Since when do foreign nationals have U.S. citizen rights?
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Post by I...Died...Again!!! on Jun 22, 2007 15:29:20 GMT -5
For future reference if I get anyone mad in the game I prefer Camel Jockey, or Sand Flea ;D
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Lamron
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Post by Lamron on Jun 22, 2007 20:16:24 GMT -5
Here's our problem:
The President was already protected by the fact that the Geneva Convention doesn't apply. Unfortunately, nobody in the Supreme Court had ever read it, so they wrongly declared that the Geneva Convention did apply to the detainees.
Instead of fighting the Supreme Court on it, or simply declaring that the Supreme Court has no jurisdiction in this matter (which they don't) and ignoring them, the President wanted to pass the new legislation immunizing certain persons from prosecution. This was totally the wrong move. If CG violations really are happening, it is not within presidential or congressional power to exempt anyone from the rules of treaties that our nation has entered into.
The President should have just pointed out that the conditions required of the Geneva Conventions were not met and did not apply. They do apply to the soldiers of the regular Iraqi army, who surrendered to us long ago. The official Iraq government is no longer hostile to us and we are not engaged in conflict with them. IF there are any Iraqi soldiers being detained anywhere, the GC protections would cover them.
Iraqi citizens who attack American soldiers and commit terrorist attacks are in opposition to their own government and are not soldiers or any other protected group. Outside terrorists comming in from Iran, Syria, etc. are not soldiers either, but fall under the category of spies, saboteurs, and assassins. Even under actual war conditions where the GC would apply, these persons are still not protected and can be killed on sight or detained at the whim of their captors.
CG protections do not happen automatically. The status of the person in question has to be verified. They have to provide their name, rank, unit affiliation, and declare themselves to be soldiers of a particular nation. That nation is to be notified of their capture at the earliest opportunity and given opportunity to confirm their status as legitimate soldiers belonging to that nation. The terrorist detainees DO NOT conform to the requirements and as such DO NOT receive protection under the Geneva Convention.
In any case, what we do for the specific purpose of saving lives would not qualify as "torture" anywhere else in the world. Anyone who's experienced real torture for a day would gladly trade it for a year of "torture" in American detention camps. Besides, once they tell us what we need to know, it stops. Not like our enemy that simply tortures people to death just for the fun of it.
Liberals/Media and RINOs have been trying to argue the legality of their status and how we treat them. However, they haven't been able to creat any public support or interest from the average American. Many or most Americans don't care if they are being tortured or think we aren't doing it enough. And hearing stories about them complaining that they don't like the food or how soft their prayer rug is, makes people want to see them "released" from 30,000 feet over their homeland.
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Death's Shadow
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 22, 2007 23:24:44 GMT -5
And hearing stories about them complaining that they don't like the food or how soft their prayer rug is, makes people want to see them "released" from 30,000 feet over their homeland. Sounds good to me. May one of them land on Osama's head. LOL
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Post by I...Died...Again!!! on Jun 23, 2007 6:17:32 GMT -5
So would Islam be considered a Nation? As it is commonly referred to as such. And if we are too accept that it is that means that any radical, extremist, sand flea can be considered a soldier of said Nation of Islam? Just a dumb thought!
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Death's Shadow
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 23, 2007 7:56:52 GMT -5
Islam is not a nation but a religion, as such does not qualify for the GC protections. But I have heard them called that before also.
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Post by michiganmilitia on Jun 23, 2007 9:56:07 GMT -5
It's no wonder this war in the Middle East is a mess.. Last night while lying in bed, I opened up Master Sun's The Art of War and read just the first few pages before I went nuts. I can see exactly why this war is a mess. Read up and you'll understand too. (You'd better read it! It took forever to type in the correct format!) From The Art of War by Sun-tzu, edited and translated by John Minford: Chapter Two Waging of War Master Sun said: In War, For an army of One thousand Four-horse swift chariots, One thousand Hide-armored wagons, For one hundred thousand Mail-clad soldiers, With provisions for Four hundred miles; Allowing for Expenses at home and at the front, Dealings with envoys and advisers; Glue and lacquer, Repairs to chariots and armor; The daily cost of all this Will exceed One thousand taels of silver. In War, Victory should be Swift. If victory is slow, Men tire, Morale sags. Sieges Exhaust strength; Protracted campaigns Strain the public treasury. If men are tired, Morale low, Strength exhausted Treasure spend; Then the feudal lords Will exploit the disarray And attack. This even the wisest Will be powerless To mend. I have heard in war Haste can be Folly But have never seen Delay that was Wise. No nation has ever benefited From a protracted war. Without a full understanding of The harm Caused by war, It is impossible to understand The most profitable way of conducting it. The Skillful Warrior Never conscripts troops A second time; Never transports provisions A third. He brings equipment from home But forages off the enemy. And so his men Have plenty to eat. Supplying an army At a distance Drains the public coffers And impoverishes The common people. Where an army is close at hand, Prices rise; When prices rise, The common people Spend all they have; When they spend all, They feel the pinch of Taxes and levies. Strength is depleted On the battlefield; Families at home Are destitute. The common people Lose seven-tenths Of their wealth. Six-tenths of the public coffers Are spent On broken chariots, Worm-out horses, Armor and helmets, Crossbows and arrows, Spears and bucklers, Lances and shields, Draft animals, Heavy wagons. So a wise general Feeds his army Off the enemy. One peck Of enemy provisions Is worth twenty Carried from home; One picul Of enemy fodder Is worth twenty Carried from home. The killing of an enemy Stems from Wrath; The fighting for booty Stems from A desire for reward. In chariot fighting, When more than ten Enemy chariots are captured, The man to take the first Should be rewarded. Change the enemy's Chariot flags and standards; Mingle their chariots With ours. Treat prisoners of war kindly, And care for them. Use victory over the enemy To enhance your own strength. In War, Prize victory Not a protracted campaign. The wise general Is a Lord of Destiny; He holds the nation's Peace or peril In his hands.
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a Silly Person
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Post by a Silly Person on Jun 23, 2007 10:55:11 GMT -5
Wow. Pretty interesting. I found that I agreed with pretty much everything written there MM. It made perfect and practical sense to me.
Smart Dude, ;D
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Death's Shadow
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 23, 2007 12:04:10 GMT -5
Ditto silly.
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Post by Urumii-Previously ThePresident on Jun 24, 2007 2:01:53 GMT -5
....My mom and dad have both said they remember hearing about this on MPR and NPR (Minnesota, and National Public Radio) awhile ago. Before I go read that story, I can tell you that your first mistake is listening to "XPR" (anything Public Radio) as it's all leftist propaganda masquerading as intellectual news. Period. My parents listen to XPR, but when they get back home they do research on the internet to get all the facts of what they had heard. Whatever side you are on, it can be very good to listen to the other side, just to get a different viewpoint. My parents are like me, or more likely, I am like my parents, they think about the situation at hand and make their own decision. But they make sure to take in both sides before making that decision. Really the only reason I included that fact was to prove that this was indeed an issue, whether or not you believe its a legitimate one. I myself don't listen to XPR, not because it is leftish, but because I like music . But when I listen to it with my parents, I do find it a little too liberal for my tastes. I don't like extremes of either side, which is why I just do the research myself, and don't rely on people telling me what I should believe.
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Post by vinsanity on Jun 24, 2007 8:17:09 GMT -5
Before I go read that story, I can tell you that your first mistake is listening to "XPR" (anything Public Radio) as it's all leftist propaganda masquerading as intellectual news. Period. LOL! It amuses me that conservatives say the same thing about NPR that liberals say about conservative talk radio/media. I do agree that listening to both (or neither) is the way to hear both sides of issues so that you can them form your own opinion. The truth is, most conservatives get their opinions from their "chosen" media source of interest just as most liberals do. Then they want to argue each other over what is correct. The only true winners are the govt. and the media outlets.
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RedRock
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Post by RedRock on Jun 24, 2007 8:39:43 GMT -5
Yeah, Vinny, but no one picks your pocket to pay for "the other side" of what you listen to--I have to pony up for XPR against my wishes through federal and local tax dollars, while "conservative" talk radio pays its way with advertisements due to its overwhelming airwave popularity over all other talk radio. I resent being forced to pay for propaganda disguised as intellectual fairness. And by the way, conservative talk radio and the Fox news network are the other side of the mainstream media, they are the "alternative" info source. I hear it all and read and see plenty from the mainstream, even keep a Time magazine subscription (although that's nearly worthless as regards any truthful reporting), and that's why I can see the bs wrapped into both the agenda and the reporting of XPR. Try this: listen to XPR sometime, reports and "ads" and "PSA's," and simply count the number of times "sustainable" or "renewable" or "fair" or "just" are used in any fashion.
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