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Post by vinsanity on Jun 24, 2007 11:42:12 GMT -5
What are wrong with the words "fair," "just," "sustainable," or "renewable." None of those sound like evil to me.
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Post by vinsanity on Jun 24, 2007 11:46:42 GMT -5
Yeah, Vinny, but no one picks your pocket to pay for "the other side" of what you listen to--I have to pony up for XPR against my wishes through federal and local tax dollars, while "conservative" talk radio pays its way with advertisements due to its overwhelming airwave popularity over all other talk radio. I resent being forced to pay for propaganda disguised as intellectual fairness. And by the way, conservative talk radio and the Fox news network are the other side of the mainstream media, they are the "alternative" info source. I hear it all and read and see plenty from the mainstream, even keep a Time magazine subscription (although that's nearly worthless as regards any truthful reporting), and that's why I can see the bs wrapped into both the agenda and the reporting of XPR. Try this: listen to XPR sometime, reports and "ads" and "PSA's," and simply count the number of times "sustainable" or "renewable" or "fair" or "just" are used in any fashion. This is the crux of the argument/debate. When we as Americans do not like where the treasury funds are spent, we say we are being robbed, fleeced, or whatever verbiage we choose. I feel exactly the same way about billions of dollars being spent to fight a war that IMHO ultimately should not be fought given our homeland needs. So let's agree to disagree that our govt. wastes money that ALL of us would like to see stopped. The trouble is, there is no way to stop any of it. Nor is there any way to come to an agreement as to how it should be done. So what's the point?
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Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
Posts: 5,214
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Post by Lamron on Jun 24, 2007 12:13:08 GMT -5
In a fair market where all media was purchased by consumers (through direct payment or having to listen to commercials), liberal media would be out of business. No one wants to hear that stuff other than those who simply need to hear someone reinforce what they want to believe anyway. No one gets inspired and uplifted by listening to constant hatred and pessimism. Who wants to continually hear "everything in the world sucks and its all your fault because you used the wrong lightbulb, you dirty capitalist!"? That's why liberal media is barely staying afloat with government subsidies and donations, while conservitive media is making stupid huge piles of money.
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Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
Posts: 5,214
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Post by Lamron on Jun 24, 2007 12:20:27 GMT -5
What are wrong with the words "fair," "just," "sustainable," or "renewable." None of those sound like evil to me. "Fair" and "Just" are code words for socialism. As in, "Its not fair/just that people who work harder have more money than lazy slackers. We need to correct this "injustice"". "Sustainable" and "Renewable" are code words for stagnation and discouraging inovation. We should always be moving FORWARD. Not trying to find some zero sum balance point. Which means using MORE energy, not less.
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Death's Shadow
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I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 24, 2007 12:25:59 GMT -5
I heard rumors that CNN, and The New York Times are having a hard time staying afloat. Their subscriber base has been declining steadily along with ratings. But as I said I don't have proof of that it is just a rumor that I heard. Ill have to research it further. I would not shed a tear to see CNN become extinct or revamp their reporting to a truthful bases instead of liberal propaganda.
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Post by vinsanity on Jun 24, 2007 15:37:07 GMT -5
In a fair market where all media was purchased by consumers (through direct payment or having to listen to commercials), liberal media would be out of business. No one wants to hear that stuff other than those who simply need to hear someone reinforce what they want to believe anyway. No one gets inspired and uplifted by listening to constant hatred and pessimism. Who wants to continually hear "everything in the world sucks and its all your fault because you used the wrong lightbulb, you dirty capitalist!"? That's why liberal media is barely staying afloat with government subsidies and donations, while conservitive media is making stupid huge piles of money. I disagree. The conservatives are making piles of money becasue they use God to back up their ideas. Be they liberal or conservative, no one wants to argue agaisnt God.
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Death's Shadow
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I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 24, 2007 16:29:56 GMT -5
Vin... What does God have to do with the source of the funding? well I guess I can see that. Our money does say "In God we trust" but seriously.. Were are the "free market" Liberal talk shows on the radio? They don't get enough people to listen to gain endorsement from the marketers. I have heard DR. Dean on the radio toss some liberal stuff out there but his is medical based show not political.
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Post by vinsanity on Jun 24, 2007 18:10:55 GMT -5
Vin... What does God have to do with the source of the funding? well I guess I can see that. Our money does say "In God we trust" but seriously.. Were are the "free market" Liberal talk shows on the radio? They don't get enough people to listen to gain endorsement from the marketers. I have heard DR. Dean on the radio toss some liberal stuff out there but his is medical based show not political. In my opinion, most conservative talk radio is filled with attitudes and opinions that are based on keeping wealthy white America just that way. To me it sometimes reeks of racism and hatred. In this nation we should be united as a people. But I have no idea why as we never have been in our history.
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Death's Shadow
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I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 24, 2007 20:37:44 GMT -5
Because we are not communist. Those that work hard get the rewards. Those that get the rewards can offer more opportunity to their kids and family making it easier for them to succeed. If you take away the rewards for success there will be no success. Why would people feel the need to work if they can lay at home and watch the people that do work provide for them? This "equal share idea" was already tried with the original settlers and they stagnated till some one said you don't work you don't eat. Bingo capitalism born.
More and more it is not a distinction between white or not as there are many people of different races in power positions now.
And the cool thing about a radio or T.V. if you don't like what you hear or see turn the channel or turn it off. That is what I do when I can not stand to hear anymore liberal propaganda pouring from the speakers. ;D
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Post by Urumii-Previously ThePresident on Jun 25, 2007 2:03:00 GMT -5
Those that work hard get the rewards. What about a person working two full time jobs, just to have enough money to starve. They can't go to college because they can't save any money up, they can't get a loan because their credit is so bad. I know many people who work their asses off just to have some food and shelter for their kids. You say, well they should go to college so they can get a better job. But they can't, there is no time, not enough money and the gov. won't help if they are making, well its a weird calculation I don't remember. More and more it is not a distinction between white or not as there are many people of different races in power positions now. It is a distinction of poor vs. not poor. And Since a large majoraty of poor people happen to be black and mexican, they get discriminated against, and think it is because of their color. Poor people tend to commit more crimes, thus making blacks and mexicans look bad. But I used to live in a very poor area where it was mostly white people, and the crime was just the same as when we moved to another poor area where it was mostly black people.
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Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
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Post by Lamron on Jun 25, 2007 2:19:14 GMT -5
What about a person working two full time jobs, just to have enough money to starve. They can't go to college because they can't save any money up, they can't get a loan because their credit is so bad. I know many people who work their asses off just to have some food and shelter for their kids. You make it sound like those people are victims. Having bad credit and kids you can't afford are the result of bad choices. I guess you could say that its not necessarily true that working hard will get you ahead, you have to make good choices too. If you choose to be a slacker and a moron, then life will be harder for you. Many people do learn the error of their ways and try to work their way out of the bad situation they're in. I can sympathize with their problems and applaud their efforts to undo past mistakes, but the fact remains that its their fault they are in their situation. It is not the job of any government agency to help them. The government has NO discretionary money to give. Individuals and community groups (such as churches) should be the ones to help those people.
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Post by Urumii-Previously ThePresident on Jun 25, 2007 3:38:09 GMT -5
I agree that they got themselves in that situation in the first place, I was only saying that its not as simple as work hard, and you'll get whatever you want. Some people work hard, and still don't get anything out of it because they had messed up something earlier. And once you've gotten in that situation, its very hard to get out. Its hard to go from lower-class to middle class. And even harder to go from middle-class to upper-class. It requires more luck than skill I think.
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Post by Sgt_Blueberry on Jun 25, 2007 9:48:09 GMT -5
I have been to the top of the corporate ladder 3 times in my life. I fell off the ladder twice due to bad decisions. One was a failed marrige that sucked the motivation out of me and drained me financially. That was in 1990. I climbed the ladder once again to be knocked off in 1999 due to another bad choice of drugs. So here we are in 2007. I am back at the top for the third time in my life and I am stronger now than I have ever been due to learning from my mistakes and the choice not to be a slacker and a moron. I am just an average joe who will not stop until I have everything I need and want. That is the beauty of America, anyone who wants it can get it. It is not luck or skill, it's just a basic survival instinct that we are all born with. Some however choose to dead head and give up and others are raised being told that the system is against you and you will never be anything.
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Death's Shadow
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 25, 2007 11:30:09 GMT -5
I agree that they got themselves in that situation in the first place, I was only saying that its not as simple as work hard, and you'll get whatever you want. Some people work hard, and still don't get anything out of it because they had messed up something earlier. And once you've gotten in that situation, its very hard to get out. Its hard to go from lower-class to middle class. And even harder to go from middle-class to upper-class. It requires more luck than skill I think. Exactly.. they made bad choices and now have to work twice or three times as hard to break even. That is life. The individual should be responsible for their own poor choices the same as receiving the rewards for their good choices. It is not the govt. place to bail people out because they made a bad choice in life. With the current programs in place any high school graduate that chose to work hard and learn while in school can go to college. There are grants and loans available to them. If they chose to drop out or not go to college then that is their own fault. And makes their life that much harder. If they chose to produce kids before they were financially able to care for them, that is again their own poor choice. And before it is said, I am not rich or well off by any means. This was due to my own poor choices in my youth that I am still paying for. However I chose to improve my situation, worked a full time job, went to college got an education and now work for 3 times what I could before. So no it is not luck, it is determination to improve your life and situation with out expecting others to do it for you.
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Pvt._Michaels
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AMERICA......it was nice while it lasted.
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Post by Pvt._Michaels on Jun 26, 2007 10:07:59 GMT -5
Great thread going here...!
Now, be prepared for the greatest re-distribution of wealth EVER as a result of the so called immigration bill. All the lib code words ( victimology as practiced by the left ) will be used to make it look like fat cat rich white guys oppress the Mexicans. Puffery. The actual result will be to accelerate the demise of SS, make quality health disappear (like in the UK, Canada,etc) stifle investment, etc.
Do we really care if lettuce goes up 100% if the 76% of ag workers who ARE citizens get a pay increase...? same for roofers, grass cutters, drywall sanders, etc. Immigration control is not rocket science. The creeps on both sides of the aisle who are for this bill simply want to cultivate more victims & create disdain for our capitalist centered culture; Using "victimology" as the vehicle. I just can't understand why so many otherwise intelligent folks lap this crap up as "feel good" legislation. It will be our undoing.
Pvt. Michaels
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