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Taxes
May 19, 2008 23:42:03 GMT -5
Post by daffy_duck on May 19, 2008 23:42:03 GMT -5
i'll throw my2 cents worth in on this one. 10 years ago my heart crashed do to a collapsed aoritc heart valve. this was caused because of an undetected birth defect. my valve was bicuspic, the surgery would of cost close to 180,000 dollars including the one month hospital stay. as it ended up it didn't cost me a cent except for the ambulance trip which isn't paid for by our medical coverage. it would've been cheaper just to bury me if i had to pay for it.
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Taxes
May 19, 2008 23:56:29 GMT -5
Post by Urumii-Previously ThePresident on May 19, 2008 23:56:29 GMT -5
And those are the things that need to be covered universally, however that is done. People don't need to go to the doctor every time they sneeze, and if they insist on doing so then they can pay the extra money for that. But I don't think it is right for a person to be charged 180,000 because health care costs so damn much. For people without health care, those types of things are a decision between dying, or living a deminished and unfulfilling life because you are basically paying off a house.
In my opinion there is a big problem with the way our health care works. I am not suggesting I have the perfect answer to the problem, but I am suggesting that there has got to be an answer better than the one we have now. Change isn't always bad.
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a Silly Person
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 0:36:41 GMT -5
Post by a Silly Person on May 20, 2008 0:36:41 GMT -5
"Change isn't always bad" but we can't be haphazardly changing things on a whim either. There needs to be proof of a plan that will work better. I was just reminded of that other thread and the " Cause of global warming" argument. Look at all the fix-it plans that are getting shoved down our throats on that issue and notice that everyone pretty much disregarded the lack of facts indicating that it may just be a natural happening. If this is just a natural phenomenon with the global warming, and we are not responsible for it, look at all that money and effort we are wasting towards that when we could be bettering our Health care. Lets deal with facts and not opinions or hypothesis. I agree that we don't need to go to the Doc for every little sneeze, however, preventative visits are a must and many times will catch a malady early enough so that it is treatable and doesn't turn into major financial problem later on. Regarding the health care system that we have... there is no getting around the costs what with the high price of that college education and the more frequent lawsuits that continually haunt every profession. True, medicines bought in this country may be more expensive than in other countries, but do those other countries offer that FDA sticker or stamp on their medicines? How safe are they? We will pay our insurance companies, or we will pay more money in taxes which will pay those medical bills. In either case, medical help will never be free and someone needs to pay for health care. There! I spaketh my mind on those two or more subjects. Wow Daffy! glad they were able to get that fixed for ya!
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 2:38:06 GMT -5
Post by Garp {eng} on May 20, 2008 2:38:06 GMT -5
Our national health system works? everyone in the UK is entitled to and gets FREE health care regardless of age,status,ethnicity,class ect ect. this page gives you some info on our NHS www.nhs.uk/aboutnhs/Pages/About.aspx
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 7:33:55 GMT -5
Post by vinsanity on May 20, 2008 7:33:55 GMT -5
GArp. it is not free. You may not have direct out of pocket expenses for services, but your taxes pay the costs.
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 9:30:56 GMT -5
Post by Garp {eng} on May 20, 2008 9:30:56 GMT -5
Yes you are right, but we don't have to worrie about paying for treament :-) or if we can afford aftercare :-) everything has to be paid for its just a matter of how :-)
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Death's Shadow
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 9:39:47 GMT -5
Post by Death's Shadow on May 20, 2008 9:39:47 GMT -5
And those are the things that need to be covered universally, however that is done. People don't need to go to the doctor every time they sneeze, and if they insist on doing so then they can pay the extra money for that. But I don't think it is right for a person to be charged 180,000 because health care costs so damn much. For people without health care, those types of things are a decision between dying, or living a deminished and unfulfilling life because you are basically paying off a house. In my opinion there is a big problem with the way our health care works. I am not suggesting I have the perfect answer to the problem, but I am suggesting that there has got to be an answer better than the one we have now. Change isn't always bad. I do not know what to tell you. We live in a free enterprise society. Have you considered moving to a country that has "free" socialist health care. Ok the surgery to save the life of your neighbor down the street costs 180K. Are you ok with paying for it? How about the other person across town that you do not even know that needs the same. You have done well in life and made the correct choices and now you are taxed 50% or more of what you make to pay for all the other peoples health care. Some were you said your parents make 120K. That is very good. Now imagine "free" health care was put in place. Your family now only brings home 60K would that have been fair to lower your standards of living? Look into it. I know of several hospitals that have funds available for the poor or indigent. They use it as a tax write off or the money was donated by the community. No one is denied life saving surgery in this country.
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Death's Shadow
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 9:45:32 GMT -5
Post by Death's Shadow on May 20, 2008 9:45:32 GMT -5
Yes you are right, but we don't have to worrie about paying for treament :-) or if we can afford aftercare :-) everything has to be paid for its just a matter of how :-) I am glad that system works for you. I do not want my pocket picked to pay for everyone else's health care.
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 10:57:11 GMT -5
Post by Sgt_Blueberry on May 20, 2008 10:57:11 GMT -5
I pay $526.00 per month for "family" medical coverage. (BLue Cross & Blue Shield) Three years ago my ex-wife needed to have her ovaries removed due to cysts. When it was all over and done with I still owed over 15K in unpaid expenses, which I do not have so I have been making small payments. However, it shows on my credit score so I am getting screwed twice. Once by the insurance company and once by the hospital that reported my slow pay.
Now keep in mind that I pay $6,312.00 per year for coverage and that I still owe 4,000.00 for her surgery from 3 years ago.
If my taxes were to go up, let's say 300.00 per month, and my health care was 100% covered; I would save $226.00 per month and I would not owe anything and I would not have a tarnished credit score.
I agree with Prez, there is something wrong when you pay for coverage and still owe after services are rendered.
I would never dream of leaving this great country to live in another because of their health care system. But I do feel compelled to help make this nation better. I would not mind having my pocket picked if it meant medical expenses were covered. Hell, we would probably all save a bunch of money in the long term.
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Death's Shadow
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 11:23:53 GMT -5
Post by Death's Shadow on May 20, 2008 11:23:53 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear about your wife and her surgery, however I do not feel compelled to pay for her surgery out of my pocket. Same said for the homeless guy down the street that is there because he made poor choices, drug addictions, or is outright lazy and knows that the govt will take care of him. Not saying you or your family are freeloaders I used the extremes to make a point. I have my own family to worry about.. Depending on everyone else to cover my medical expense is not right.
I'm pretty sure your taxes would go up by more than $300 a month. We are talking 50% or higher taxes to cover everyones health. My point to Prez was not for him to pack up and move. My point was if he wants to live in a socialist communistic society that would be one option. Life is all about choices. I choose to protest the loss of my medical job, and the loss of my ability to feed my family due to outrageous taxes.
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 11:44:32 GMT -5
Post by Sgt_Blueberry on May 20, 2008 11:44:32 GMT -5
Point taken DS and as always it is a good one. But I have to ask, Do you feel that Canada and the UK are a "communistic society" because of their answer to health care? I thought I would ask because I have been reading this thread daily and I don't feel that is what you meant.
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RedRock
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 11:47:17 GMT -5
Post by RedRock on May 20, 2008 11:47:17 GMT -5
The UK's NHS started, I think I read, in 1948. This means that Garp's parents, he and his siblings, and his children and their children, have been/are/will be paying for it BIG TIME, both directly and in what they could have done instead with their tax dollars, either privately or collectively! It is not free! And anyone who thinks the program is solvent---spends less than or equal to what it takes in every year and not more, thus not incurring public debt---I have some ocean-front property in Kansas to sell you!
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 12:42:33 GMT -5
Post by Sgt_Blueberry on May 20, 2008 12:42:33 GMT -5
LOL, Red. Is it on the Gulf side or the Atlantic side? LOL
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 12:50:40 GMT -5
Post by Urumii-Previously ThePresident on May 20, 2008 12:50:40 GMT -5
I do not know what to tell you. We live in a free enterprise society. Have you considered moving to a country that has "free" socialist health care. Ok the surgery to save the life of your neighbor down the street costs 180K. Are you ok with paying for it? How about the other person across town that you do not even know that needs the same. You have done well in life and made the correct choices and now you are taxed 50% or more of what you make to pay for all the other peoples health care. Some were you said your parents make 120K. That is very good. Now imagine "free" health care was put in place. Your family now only brings home 60K would that have been fair to lower your standards of living? Look into it. I know of several hospitals that have funds available for the poor or indigent. They use it as a tax write off or the money was donated by the community. No one is denied life saving surgery in this country. Actually I have thought about moving away to Costa Rica, the UK or Canada for many different reasons, and health care being one of them. But I am only 19 with no college degree, and workin a shit job not making very much. So I don't have the means to do so at this point in my life. That being said, I do have the right to try and make wherever I live a better place. And at this time I'm living in the US. I have never said I would like to be taxed 50% to pay for everyone. Who wants to make less money, and see minimal reward for it? Not me, obviously not you DS, Red, Lam, etc. I am suggesting that our health care, the way it is being run right now, is not the perfect system. That isn't to say the UK's is better and we should adopt their system. That is to say that we, the American people, should adopt out own system that fits the needs of our country. So that would mean for us to put in place a system that doesn't hurt the medical community. Especially you DS, you are already being paid squat for the work you do (or did). And that has very little, or no out of pocket expenses to the people. I myself am willing to pay a small price, but small being a key word. You might think differently. There can be exceptions where you must have been working for 6 months straight or something, so they know you are at least contributing to your coverage and not just getting a job for a week so you can get a heart transplant. We can look at other countries and how they run things, but we have our own agenda's, so therefore cannot fully adopt any countries system. I am not claiming to have the perfect system, I am just throwing ideas out that are different from the ones you think I have. I would fully agree with you guys about being taxed so much, but that is not what I am arguing about, so therefore I have to disagree with you.
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Death's Shadow
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Taxes
May 20, 2008 16:57:22 GMT -5
Post by Death's Shadow on May 20, 2008 16:57:22 GMT -5
You state your opinion well Prez. However, higher taxes, mandated providers, lower standards, willingness of health professionals to work under a salary cap, all these things are at the heart of ANY govt run or mandated health care system. You can not have one with out the other, it just is not possible. You say you would not mind a small increase in tax to pay for the system. That sounds like a good idea right now in the position you are in. But those that earn more will always pay more. That is socialist. To take from the wealthy just because they are wealthy and redistribute it to the needy masses is anti capitalistic. It will kill innovation, invention, willingness to better our selves and finances. No one will want to make more just to have it taken away.
As for you only being 19 and working a crap job.. I think most of us were in your shoes at that age. What you will learn or already know is you have to pull your self up by the boot straps, get that education, better your self so you can have a higher paying job. We all paid our dues, lived like poppers, scraping by. It sucks but is a part of life and years down the road you will be in a better situation if you make wise choices.
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