Death's Shadow
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I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
Posts: 3,184 
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 25, 2008 19:37:27 GMT -5
Glad we got it cleared up.. I never post with the intention of a fight.
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Post by Sgt_Blueberry on Jun 25, 2008 19:42:21 GMT -5
However, I still feel that Carter was trying to improve relations with the enema hole called Cuba and was deceived by Castro. It does not make him the worst president in history, just perhaps the most gullible.
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Death's Shadow
LPmember
I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
Posts: 3,184
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 25, 2008 23:11:17 GMT -5
If he was that gullible then he had no business being president.
Beyond that point what about letting our US citizens rot in Iran, and not going in after them?
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Post by vinsanity on Jun 26, 2008 8:05:03 GMT -5
Carter was less effective in the Iran hostage crisis than he could have been becasue Reagan's people were making every effort to damage Carter. If you recall, the hostages were released just minutes after Reagan took the oath of office. Obviously Reagan's people (William Casey specifically) made some promises/back room deals with Iran which is why Iran released them so soon after Reagan's swearing in. It was all politically motivated - Reagan wanted those hostages freed AFTER he became President to make him look strong. Iran wanted US assistance in dealing with their invading neighbor Iraq (which they certainly got.) I always felt that by keeping those people there longer than they had to be was one of Reagan's worst moves against our people. The suggestion that Reagan, Casey, and others committed treason was even brought up. It should have been looked into further. www.u-s-history.com/pages/h2021.html |
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RedRock
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Post by RedRock on Jun 26, 2008 9:49:07 GMT -5
Carter was less effective in the Iran hostage crisis than he could have been becasue Reagan's people were making every effort to damage Carter. If you recall, the hostages were released just minutes after Reagan took the oath of office. Obviously Reagan's people (William Casey specifically) made some promises/back room deals with Iran which is why Iran released them so soon after Reagan's swearing in. It was all politically motivated - Reagan wanted those hostages freed AFTER he became President to make him look strong. Iran wanted US assistance in dealing with their invading neighbor Iraq (which they certainly got.) I always felt that by keeping those people there longer than they had to be was one of Reagan's worst moves against our people. The suggestion that Reagan, Casey, and others committed treason was even brought up. It should have been looked into further. www.u-s-history.com/pages/h2021.htmlI don't believe even for a second the allegations (and ONLY allegations) that Reagan or his people engineered the release to occur after he was elected. It was Carter's boondoggle from the beginning and everyone knew it and that was just one of the reasons he got dogwhipped in the election. The same Carter weakness that let our embassy be taken and held endlessly also let a woefully inadequate rescue attempt occur and also couldn't get the hostages released in any timely fashion even after the release was secured. If anything, the timing of the release reflected Iran's recognition that a real man was now in office and wouldn't take crap from them like Carter had. From the much-vaunted Wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_carter and |
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Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
Posts: 5,214
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Post by Lamron on Jun 26, 2008 18:22:53 GMT -5
If Carter had just gone and gotten the hostages the minute we knew they had been taken, nobody would have had any oportunity to play political games. Anything Reagan may or may not have been doing would have been moot.
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Post by vinsanity on Jun 26, 2008 20:24:51 GMT -5
If Carter had just gone and gotten the hostages the minute we knew they had been taken, nobody would have had any oportunity to play political games. Anything Reagan may or may not have been doing would have been moot. Your statement makes me believe that you too believe that Reagan's people were playing games  |
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Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
Posts: 5,214
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Post by Lamron on Jun 26, 2008 20:32:46 GMT -5
I don't know if he was or not. If we assume he actually had the ability and opportunity to control the release date, then its not impossible that he took political advantage of the situation. It seems unlikely given what we know of Reagan's character though.
In any case PRESIDENT Carter was the one with the power and responsibility to actually do something, but failed through incompetence or worse.
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Post by vinsanity on Jun 26, 2008 21:46:03 GMT -5
I agree, the worse, being the treasonous acts of a rival in the politcal arena.
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Death's Shadow
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I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 26, 2008 21:58:49 GMT -5
Regardless of any plans Regan may have had, It was Carter's responsibility to act and secure the safety of the hostages. He failed to do so, no matter what the political circumstances may have been.
If you want to talk treason lets look at recent Carter behavior.
He goes and talks to Hamas, representing US interests. He is no longer a president, was not asked to go, and flies in the face of our no negotiations with terrorists national policy. In fact he was asked not to go, but did anyway. Where does he get off lone wolfing it and assuming he can negotiate when he has not been charged the duty to do so.
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RedRock
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Post by RedRock on Jun 27, 2008 1:18:53 GMT -5
I agree, the worse, being the treasonous acts of a rival in the politcal arena. What a weak nussy if a sitting President, with all the resources at hand to the official representative and commander in chief of the United States, can't out-maneouver and out-muscle an actor turned governor TRYING to become President! GIVE ME A BREAK! |
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Post by Urumii-Previously ThePresident on Jun 27, 2008 3:38:41 GMT -5
I am not gonna pretend I know about this Carter thing, because I don't. But I may stir up a little more discussion with the very very little I know of his presidency.
I have personally never heard about anything good from his presidency, but I have also never heard of anything bad. Until just now of course. I have heard it said many times that he was an outstanding person, very nice, caring, etc. But he really didn't do anything in office, whether it was good or bad, he just kinda sat there doing nothing. Thats what I heard, I have no opinion other than that on the matter. Because I frankly have no clue about it.
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Post by vinsanity on Jun 27, 2008 8:18:17 GMT -5
I agree, the worse, being the treasonous acts of a rival in the politcal arena. What a weak nussy if a sitting President, with all the resources at hand to the official representative and commander in chief of the United States, can't out-maneouver and out-muscle an actor turned governor TRYING to become President! GIVE ME A BREAK! Without the resources of the CIA on Casey's side, it would have never hapenned. And by the way, what a great description of Reagan |
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Death's Shadow
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I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
Posts: 3,184
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Post by Death's Shadow on Jun 27, 2008 9:31:11 GMT -5
I am not gonna pretend I know about this Carter thing, because I don't. But I may stir up a little more discussion with the very very little I know of his presidency. I have personally never heard about anything good from his presidency, but I have also never heard of anything bad. Until just now of course. I have heard it said many times that he was an outstanding person, very nice, caring, etc. But he really didn't do anything in office, whether it was good or bad, he just kinda sat there doing nothing. Thats what I heard, I have no opinion other than that on the matter. Because I frankly have no clue about it. You are pretty close. However his feel good way of running things trashed our economy. |
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Pvt._Michaels
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AMERICA......it was nice while it lasted.
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Post by Pvt._Michaels on Jun 27, 2008 10:54:18 GMT -5
What a weak nussy if a sitting President, with all the resources at hand to the official representative and commander in chief of the United States, can't out-maneouver and out-muscle an actor turned governor TRYING to become President! GIVE ME A BREAK! Without the resources of the CIA on Casey's side, it would have never hapenned. And by the way, what a great description of Reagan Let's hear more about your fantasy conspiracy theory, Vin..... Revisionist history is very entertaining.... Meanwhile, ask Momar in Libya if Reagan was for real.... just speculating here, now, but, perhaps Mr. Casey was able to telegraph to the Ayatollahs that the "new sheriff" in town was not going to be "entering into dialog"...but, more inclined to walk softly and carry a very large stick. Just a theory... The Pvt. |
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