Lamron
Benevolent Dictator
Posts: 5,214
|
Post by Lamron on Apr 28, 2008 19:18:42 GMT -5
If we could find some way to cause global warming, we should do anything and everything we could to promote it. Burn oil fields, burn forests, invent new ways to pump junk into the air. The benefits would be massive, with only a few degrees increase. Thousands would not freeze to death, growing seasons would be longer, northern natural resources would be cheaper/easier/safer to get to. Think of the huge savings in oil, coal, and trees that are burned for heating!
Unfortunately, we don't have the ability to do that. A single volcano eruption dwarfs all of the pollutants industrial man has produced. The problem here is that the world is designed to be self-regulating. More particulates in the air blocks sunlight from reaching the earth, causing a slight cooling. That's COOLING, try standing in the shade and see if that's warmer than standing in the sun. Duh! The cooling causes water vapor (the infamous "greenhouse gas" everyone talks about) to condense. Water vapor can not just condense on its own. It needs a seed to form around. So if forms around particulates in the air and becomes a raindrop. The raindrop falls, the air is cleaned, and we get sunlight again. The CLEAN air warms the planet and the cycle repeats.
Any "scientist" who tells you that man is causing global warming (and its a bad thing), is LYING. Not mistaken, not misled, but LYING about it. Its impossible to think about it for two seconds and still believe it. They are LYING to you for research grant money, or to try to get as many people killed as possible to further the ultimate goal of killing off 95% of the worlds population. Throw in a few people that jump on board for the political power, and you have a huge, hysterical hoax forced upon the world.
These people who push this envirowacko stuff are the most dangerous people on the planet. There is no limit to the destruction they will cause with their sick agenda.
I hope some of these people have the good graces to be suicidally ashamed when they realize that they are forcing us to clear-cut old-growth forests around the world so we can grow their stupid ethanol.
|
|
|
Post by vinsanity on Apr 28, 2008 19:52:05 GMT -5
If we could find some way to cause global warming, we should do anything and everything we could to promote it. Burn oil fields, burn forests, invent new ways to pump junk into the air. The benefits would be massive, with only a few degrees increase. Thousands would not freeze to death, growing seasons would be longer, northern natural resources would be cheaper/easier/safer to get to. Think of the huge savings in oil, coal, and trees that are burned for heating! Unfortunately, we don't have the ability to do that. It is official, you have lost your damn mind.
|
|
RedRock
LPmember
Never ask what kind of computer a person uses--if it's a Mac, he'll say; if not, why embarrass him?
Posts: 4,968
|
Post by RedRock on Apr 28, 2008 23:14:13 GMT -5
If we could find some way to cause global warming, we should do anything and everything we could to promote it. Burn oil fields, burn forests, invent new ways to pump junk into the air. The benefits would be massive, with only a few degrees increase. Thousands would not freeze to death, growing seasons would be longer, northern natural resources would be cheaper/easier/safer to get to. Think of the huge savings in oil, coal, and trees that are burned for heating! Unfortunately, we don't have the ability to do that. It is official, you have lost your damn mind. Hardly. Already numerous countries are trying to "claim" the polar regions of the world in the hope that the "warming" will unthaw vast resources that can be harvested, for example.
|
|
|
Post by Urumii-Previously ThePresident on Apr 28, 2008 23:21:30 GMT -5
Can any of you send me to a source that backs up any of the points you have made? I looked at the sunspot chart, and saw nothing about temperature/global warming. Just a chart with no labels for the axis, it looked to me it was the number of sunspots corresponding to the year. Which doesn't really explain anything to me. If there was a chart linking sunspots to temperature, or CO2, etc. Then you may have something.
I have provided my proof, and can keep providing proof, but I have NEVER been shown ANY proof contradicting my opinions. Show me the links, show me the videos, show me the speeches that make you believe the things you are saying.
Until then, it is your words against my proof. Show me something disproofing my proof. I need something more than your personal opinions.
For example, Lamron... Why do you think any "scientist" who says anything about global warming being bad is LYING. That is just what you believe until you show me WHY you believe it. And until you can show me WHY you believe it, I will NEVER believe what you are saying.
I feel kinda bad about being so forceful here, because I like everyone here... But if you really want me to see your side, thats the only way anybody should ever be convinced. And I would like to keep it civil here, I think you went too far in your last post Lamron. Once again, that is not the way to convince anyone of anything.
|
|
Death's Shadow
LPmember
I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
Posts: 3,184
|
Post by Death's Shadow on Apr 29, 2008 0:02:48 GMT -5
My point about the sunspots was it clearly shows the sun has a 11 year cycle of increase and decrease in activity. Any one of your scientists if they are being honest would tell you that all energy on earth is derived from the sun directly or indirectly.
I will keep on the hunt for those links you would like, they are there. However I would like to point out that just because you believe the AAAS is credible does not make it so. I do not accept them as credible unbiased sources of scientific fact. They have a agenda in the political circle. I think it was Red who posted the quote from that AAAS artical. Thus proving my point about them not being credible and unbiased in their own words by their own hand.
Lamron is correct. Just because you do not like his view point does not mean that he went too far.
|
|
Death's Shadow
LPmember
I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
Posts: 3,184
|
Post by Death's Shadow on Apr 29, 2008 0:42:01 GMT -5
|
|
Pvt._Michaels
LPmember
AMERICA......it was nice while it lasted.
Posts: 365
|
Post by Pvt._Michaels on Apr 29, 2008 11:07:41 GMT -5
Hey Pres.....
Why do we 'non-believers" need to go back to basic common sense and basic science constantly in order to refute the hysterical global warming mob..... ? The burden of proof needs to be on them and back up their inane predictions and assertions. Taken individually, their premises can be refuted by 8th graders. But, the willing media stokes the fires and makes it a "crisis". This silliness is now deadly serious for our way of life.
They are naive elitists that are essentially seeking to advance a political agenda via devious devices...They know that the masses will just eat up bad science as a new religion without question. They hand pick a few observations, doctored stats, Photo shopped photos & then say "well, there it is..not up for discussion..." EVERY statement they make about man made global warming is weak and speculative in order to prop up the "greenie" movement , which if left unchallenged, will undo the USA as an economic model for the rest of the world. Without affordable, available energy sources we will fade to an also ran.... All due to organized "greenie" political agendas.
Remember Freon? Remember it being demonized by the greenies? Without conclusive scientific process applied, the politicians collapsed under the organized machinery of the environmental movement and banished R12 (Freon). Now, we have done the science, we find that R12 DOES NOT HAVE HARMFUL EFFECTS ON THE OZONE LAYER. To add insult to injury...it costs more to make alternatives like R134, is actually less friendly to the earth and does not work as well; hence costs more to operate. The refrigeration and HVAC industries for homes, businesses, and autos was decimated. The same outfit wants us to "trust" them on global warming...? I think not.
Here's another beauty..... Remember Rachel Carson, the patron saint of the greens? She LIED about its effects and scared the be-Jesus out of an entire population. Cancer, two heads, 3 legs, etc. Well she ( a contemporary of Ralph Nader) sought to build a case against DDT. Political forces jumped on her bad science in the early 60s and ultimately beat the governments of the world into BANNING DDT. At the time it had controlled malaria in 3rd world countries to the extent that Malaria had been eradicated. Also, Food crop yields went up massively as a result of DDT spraying. After gloating for years that they had beaten "the establishment & big business" into banning DDT the greens went on to pursue oil refining, oil drilling, nuclear power, all successfully. Which has put us where we are today.
DDT has now been acknowledged to be perfectly safe for eradication of mosquitoes, and insect control for crops. My point is Pres.... hysterical lefties need to come to the table with REAL science with real facts. It is not the rest of us that must just line up and accept their agenda to the point we decimate our way of life and economy. Greens are a political group.....period. They generally have a lefty, Marxist, anti capitalist, socialist agenda and have found that "do it my way in the name of the Planet" is a VERY successful tactic. It has insidiously infiltrated the political parties, the UN, the Euros.... to the extent that we may actually sign the idiotic Kyoto treaty...... Virtually everything they fight for is bogus and ends up being untrue, unproven, and damaging to our way of life. I would encourage you to be highly skeptical of their positions. They bank on the "feel good" factor of the young and uninformed to advance their agendas. It is a brilliant tactic, but, taken at face value will surely undo us all; and, that undoing will be all based on LIES.
By the way, I had snow here yesterday on April 28th....and it froze my flowers solid last night. Lam's right. If it were a few degrees warmer we'd have way more land to grow food.
The Pvt.
|
|
|
Post by vinsanity on Apr 29, 2008 12:42:38 GMT -5
I know you aren't trying to say that DDT is not harmful to people. As to the "lies" in the "greenie" movenment, I am sure they are many JUST LIKE the lies from the conservatives... What's that Bush, NO WMD's in Iraq? That is the biggest lie in decades. My point is that BOTH sides tell stories, lies, or whatever you want to call them. BOTH sides manipulate facts and data to slant the results to suit their objectives. And I as an American am sick of it all.
|
|
a Silly Person
New Member
Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.
Posts: 1,370
|
Post by a Silly Person on Apr 29, 2008 12:44:34 GMT -5
Boy you got that right Private. What are we, the "Non-believers"and skeptics, supposed to do about this?
Let's take a good look at why we can't stop these fanatical people. Could it be because the majority of them believe in some sort of religion or god which also cannot be proved nor disproved.
If a fanatic wants to believe in something, they will, regardless of the facts.
I for one can't make or force myself into believing in something that I can't prove. I won't say that I don't wish that certain things could be true but I don't let those wishful ideas affect my common sense or judgment.
Santa, the Tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, ghosts, and all other MAGICAL fairy tales do not exist until I see proof. And yes, this includes any type of religion too. Before anyone makes the comment that I am this way because of how I was brought up, both my parents believe in God. My siblings believe in God and my Wife and children believe in God. This is fine and doesn't bother me. I won't try to tell them that there isn't one, as long as they stop trying to tell me that there is.
Gee, speaking of Scare-tactics, how about that one about going to hell if we are naughty.
Sorry, got off-topic with the religion thing, but I thought that it was in direct relationship to what we were discussing here.
Proof, and what we choose to believe.
Thanks for that link DS! I am forwarding that to every one in my contacts folder. ;D
|
|
Death's Shadow
LPmember
I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
Posts: 3,184
|
Post by Death's Shadow on Apr 29, 2008 14:11:23 GMT -5
It also snowed here this weekend and low temps.. We are usually in the 60's this time of year.
|
|
Pvt._Michaels
LPmember
AMERICA......it was nice while it lasted.
Posts: 365
|
Post by Pvt._Michaels on Apr 29, 2008 15:07:35 GMT -5
I know you aren't trying to say that DDT is not harmful to people. As to the "lies" in the "greenie" movenment, I am sure they are many JUST LIKE the lies from the conservatives... What's that Bush, NO WMD's in Iraq? That is the biggest lie in decades. My point is that BOTH sides tell stories, lies, or whatever you want to call them. BOTH sides manipulate facts and data to slant the results to suit their objectives. And I as an American am sick of it all. Vin, The topic being the political persuasion of Greens (their term, not mine) is definitely in question on this thread. They pursue those that thrive on activism, causes, guilt, etc. In their zeal they tend to adopt the "end justifies the means" so, lying about the interpretation of historical climate and weather pattern data is justified. Yes, I am insinuating that DDT is not the demonized pesticide it was touted to be. Malaria is now a much bigger health problem than AIDS. info-pollution.com/ddtban.htm There are even forces within the UN of all places trying to get it re-instated. The amount of DDT required to kill mosquitoes and crop pests is NOT a threat to humans. If you drink a 6 pack of it...yeah, you might croak. The point of the thread is that the left has adopted the Green movement as the ace in the hole to win over the young and uninformed ( and those weak minded souls needing a cause). Hence it becomes their new religion. The Green movement is based on lies and it can be proven if any one cares to pursue simple facts. Gee, let's all go out and buy some of Al's "carbon credits" and feel good about ourselves...... The Pvt.
|
|
|
Post by vinsanity on Apr 29, 2008 15:11:41 GMT -5
Boy you got that right Private. What are we, the "Non-believers"and skeptics, supposed to do about this? Let's take a good look at why we can't stop these fanatical people. Could it be because the majority of them believe in some sort of religion or god which also cannot be proved nor disproved. If a fanatic wants to believe in something, they will, regardless of the facts. I for one can't make or force myself into believing in something that I can't prove. I won't say that I don't wish that certain things could be true but I don't let those wishful ideas affect my common sense or judgment. Santa, the Tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, ghosts, and all other MAGICAL fairy tales do not exist until I see proof. And yes, this includes any type of religion too. Before anyone makes the comment that I am this way because of how I was brought up, both my parents believe in God. My siblings believe in God and my Wife and children believe in God. This is fine and doesn't bother me. I won't try to tell them that there isn't one, as long as they stop trying to tell me that there is. Gee, speaking of Scare-tactics, how about that one about going to hell if we are naughty. Sorry, got off-topic with the religion thing, but I thought that it was in direct relationship to what we were discussing here. Proof, and what we choose to believe. Thanks for that link DS! I am forwarding that to every one in my contacts folder. ;D Yet another area in which we agree, oh Silly one
|
|
Pvt._Michaels
LPmember
AMERICA......it was nice while it lasted.
Posts: 365
|
Post by Pvt._Michaels on Apr 29, 2008 15:16:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by vinsanity on Apr 29, 2008 15:16:38 GMT -5
Just an observation here, not looking to create a larger argument... Why is it that conservatives in general feel the need to be so negative when commenting on the thoughts and opinions of others who differ from them? From my point of view it seems that many are simply incapable of discussing any pertinent issues without making personal attacks, name calling, and belittling those with opposing points of view. I find that method of response weak when trying to inform or convince one to change their opinion. Just my two cents.
|
|
Death's Shadow
LPmember
I have become Death. The destroyer of worlds.
Posts: 3,184
|
Post by Death's Shadow on Apr 29, 2008 15:28:34 GMT -5
I thought this discussion was about global warming.. not whether we believe in God or not.. Not about if Bush lied or not.
I am a believer in God, but I do not force my view of religion on anyone. I am using my own senses and observations, and scientific observations of others to make my argument about global warming being a farce.
|
|